Sinch AB (publ) (CLCMF) Q4 2022 Earnings Call Transcript

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Sinch AB (publ) (OTC:CLCMF) Q4 2022 Results Earnings Conference Call February 16, 2023 8:00 AM ET

Company Participants

Thomas Heath - Chief Strategy Officer and Head of Investor Relations

Johan Hedberg - Chief Executive Officer

Roshan Saldanha - Chief Financial Officer

Conference Call Participants

Predrag Savinovic - Carnegie Investment Bank

Stefan Gauffin - DNB

Daniel Thorsson - ABG Sundal Collier

Akhil Dattani - J.P. Morgan

Laura Metayer - Morgan Stanley

Andreas Joelsson - Danske Bank

Klas Danielsson - Nordea Markets

Mohammed Moawalla - Goldman Sachs

James Pavey - Bank of America


Good time and invited to nan Sinch Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will beryllium successful a listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions]. Please statement this arena is being recorded.

I would now for illustration to move nan convention complete to Thomas Heath, Chief Strategy Officer and Head of Investor Relations. Please spell ahead.

Thomas Heath

Thank you very much, operator. And bully afternoon, everyone, who's joining america coming for this results position for Sinch's 4th fourth 2022. My sanction is Thomas Heath. I'm Chief Strategy Officer and Head of Investor Relations. With maine coming is our CEO, Johan Hedberg, and our CFO, Roshan Saldanha.

And pinch those opening remarks, I'll manus nan connection complete to you, Johan.

Johan Hedberg

Thank you. Thank you, Thomas. And I deliberation we tin move straight to nan adjacent slide.

Outlined present are nan 3 priorities we presented backmost successful Q2 2022 results. Executing connected them successful nan stated bid of priority. Starting pinch costs control, we announced costs simplification programs successful summertime targeting SEK 300 cardinal successful gross savings.

Next slide. When we look astatine Q4, we tin reason that our costs simplification scheme has delivered faster savings than anticipated. Around half of nan targeted SEK 300 cardinal savings has been realized.

This floor plan shows really nan adjusted OpEx has developed. Yellow portion show OpEx added from acquisitions successful precocious 2021 and greenish portion show integrated improvement wherever you spot a flattening retired aft a crisp summation from early 2021 to early 2022.

Q4 adjusted OpEx successful SEK is 2% higher than in Q2 2022, but 12% little successful changeless currencies. There are affirmative one-time items successful Q4 that trim costs by astir SEK 60 million. In changeless currencies and excluding these one-time items, adjusted OpEx is 8% little successful Q4 compared to Q2.

Next descent please. We targeted a 10% costs simplification successful messaging and cardinal functions which is simply a small spot much than half of nan OpEx space. We tin now spot that nan full restructuring charges will beryllium little than anticipated. We now estimate them to scope SEK 80 million.

Next descent please. Higher adjusted EBITDA successful Q4 2022 than successful Q4 2021 connected a afloat pro forma basis. This includes each entities successful some periods. As we said successful Q3, nan 4th fourth is usually a beardown quarter, which besides intends we usually person sequentially little EBITDA successful Q1.

Next descent please. As successful Q3, rate travel is beardown besides successful this quarter. Cash travel from operating activities adjacent to SEK 1 billion. One clear attraction area has been reducing our overdue relationship receivables. And you tin spot connected nan floor plan that we person reduced DSO further to 60 days.

So our 3 priorities were costs control, rate travel and growth. We spot a affirmative improvement connected nan first two. And we're, of course, not happy pinch nan existent maturation rate, particularly successful nan Messaging segment.

Next descent please. Total maturation was healthy, pinch revenues increasing 41% and gross profit 79% compared to Q4 2021. We person a strategy of integrated and acquired growth. And we spot here, of course, that acquired maturation contributes significantly.

Looking astatine integrated growth, excluding M&A, it makes nary consciousness to look astatine nan pro forma figures wherever net from nan acquisitions closed successful precocious 2021 are included from October 1 to December 31 successful some 2021 and 2022. Here we spot pro forma gross maturation successful changeless currencies declining 1% year-on-year and gross profit expanding 3% year-on-year.

The superior driver is reduced volumes successful immoderate trading usage cases, which we cognize from nan past are much affected by business cycle. Q4 was softer than normal, compared to Q4 successful erstwhile years for nan messaging segment.

And looking into nan segments successful much detail. Around Messaging, we person antagonistic growth, pinch revenues down 5% and gross profit down 8% successful changeless currencies. The ample contributing facet is reduced pricing and volumes pinch 1 of our largest customers. This customer is shifting attraction connected maturation towards profitability, which intends immoderate business is reassessed and exited. This is nan aforesaid customer wherever we adjusted prices successful Q2 2022. Excluding this 1 customer, gross profit maturation successful Messaging would person been affirmative successful Q4. Here nan comparables will get somewhat easier from Q2 2023. But successful Q1, we still look reliable comparables.

For voice, gross maturation astatine 4% and GP maturation astatine 6%. Here we proceed to person a 5% headwind from 8YY reform. Our maturation complaint present is helped by beardown request for our number of acquisition products. But you should beryllium alert that nan comparables successful this area will get much challenging during nan year.

Email. Email is performing good pinch 19% gross maturation and 20% maturation successful gross profit. The unreality migration projects wherever we alteration vendors to execute a much competitory costs building has now been completed.

For SMB, gross maturation is 16% and gross profit maturation is 24%. We person highlighted a antagonistic one-time effect successful nan base, which has a 12% affirmative effect connected nan pro forma maturation complaint successful Q4 2022. So, underlying GP maturation is astatine 12%, which is successful statement pinch Q3.

What is happening nether nan hood present is that maturation successful North American SMB offerings continues very healthy. But astatine nan aforesaid time, location are unit connected nan installed guidelines successful Australia.

So coming backmost to nan bigger picture, we, of course, want to spot higher maturation rates than we presently see, particularly successful nan Messaging segment. This takes immoderate time, of course, and nan macroeconomic situation remains uncertain. This intends that we are not expecting an contiguous improvement.

However, location are aggregate initiatives ongoing wherever we are investing to summation our mid and semipermanent growth. We are investing successful merchandise integration, make it easier to devour aggregate vanished products.

Most of our customers still usage only 1 product. One specified area is processing our sound offering and making much features disposable via Sinch [indiscernible]. We proceed to merge acquired platforms and move postulation to our mobile platform, some successful Messaging and SMB. Lastly, we besides proceed to put successful APIs and package for conversational messaging.

Since we person profitable and rate generative business, we are capable to make targeted investments besides successful much challenging environments.

So convey you. And heading complete nan connection our CFO, Roshan.

Roshan Saldanha

Thank you, Johan. And bully time to you connected nan call. This is Roshan Saldanha, Chief Financial Officer astatine Sinch. I will locomotion done nan financial results successful much detail.

Please move to page 10 wherever I speak connected nan 4th fourth highlights. We're satisfied to spot a bully improvement successful nan costs simplification program, delivering results faster than anticipated. Around half of nan targeted SEK 300 cardinal gross savings person been realized.

And adjusted OpEx successful Q4 is 12% little than successful nan 2nd 4th of past twelvemonth connected a changeless rate basis. The OpEx is helped successful nan 4th pinch astir SEK 60 million. And excluding that, it would person been 8% little successful Q4 compared to nan 2nd 4th of 2022.

We besides spot separator stableness and clasp bully pricing expertise owed to nan superior value and worth that we present for our customers. Gross separator successful nan 4th was astatine 33%, up from 26% a twelvemonth agone and 1.4% up from pro forma Q4 2021.

On nan 2nd privilege of rate flow, we person yet different 4th pinch beardown rate flow. Adjusted EBITDA was astatine SEK 960 million, and we had improved rate travel from operating activities astatine SEK 973 million. This intends that we were capable to return our leverage KPI of nett indebtedness complete adjusted EBITDA excluding IFRS 16 leases to 2.7x compared to 3.2x astatine nan extremity of September 2022.

Please move to page 11 which shows a span explaining our underlying gross profit development. In nan 4th quarter, we person integrated gross profit maturation of 2% and pro forma integrated gross profit maturation of conscionable 3% connected a changeless rate basis. We attraction connected gross profit erstwhile we measure and steer our business. Consolidated gross profit roseate by 79% during nan 4th to SEK 2.4 cardinal and gross separator improved to 33%.

The Swedish kroner weakening against awesome currencies [indiscernible] SEK 156 cardinal aliases 12 percent points and nan acquired companies during nan past 12 months lend 65 percent points of nan gross profit increase.

Looking much intimately astatine nan individual segments. In Messaging, we person an integrated maturation successful gross profit successful section currencies [indiscernible] astatine minus 8%, which is owed to value actions pinch a ample customer antecedently announced successful Q2 and weaker postulation compared to past twelvemonth successful nan 4th quarter.

Moving connected to Voice. On a pro forma and integrated ground excluding overseas rate effects, maturation successful nan Voice conception was astatine 4%. This includes a antagonistic effect from nan 8YY regularisation alteration successful nan US pinch 5 percent points.

In nan Email segment, connected a pro forma and integrated basis, maturation was astatine 20 percent points. And successful SMB, it was astatine 24%. The SMB conception is affected by a one-off antagonistic effect successful nan guidelines successful Q4 2021 anterior to acquisition. And excluding that, nan maturation would person been 5% which is akin to what we had successful 3rd 4th of 2022.

Growth successful nan US marketplace continues to beryllium beardown for SMB, but that is offset by slower maturation connected larger customers successful Australia.

Moving connected to page 12. You tin spot that nan numbers connected nan descent are connected a pro forma basis, including each completed acquisitions. And it shows besides nan gross separator stability, which reflects nan spot successful our merchandise proposition towards customers.

We judge that we tin amended this complete clip arsenic higher separator products are increasing faster. Q2 2022, arsenic you know, was affected by a reassessment of results for accrued postulation costs, pinch SEK 162 cardinal successful nan Messaging segment.

Adjusted EBITDA separator besides continued to beryllium unchangeable astatine 13%, and is supported by nan benefits of our costs simplification programme wherever half of nan targeted savings are now realized. Adjusted EBITDA separator successful nan Messaging conception was 8% for nan quarter.

I'd for illustration to move connected to page 13 wherever we person nan income statement. Consolidated nett income grew by 41% successful nan 4th to SEK 7.4 billion. The maturation complaint successful nan 4th was positively affected by erstwhile acquisitions. On an integrated basis, successful section currency, nan maturation was minus 2%. And connected a afloat pro forma basis, successful section currency, maturation would person been minus 1%.

Other operating income includes overseas speech gains related to operating items and reversal of a erstwhile acquisition.

EBITDA for nan 4th was SEK 791 million, up from SEK 330 cardinal past year. One-off items, arsenic I person referred to already successful operating costs, helped nan adjusted EBITDA by SEK 60 cardinal successful nan quarter. Adjusted EBITDA per stock came successful astatine SEK 1.13 for nan 4th versus SEK 0.61 during nan aforesaid play past year.

We made a goodwill impairment related to nan Email conception successful nan 3rd 4th of 2022 of SEK 5 billion. And successful this quarter, we person a rate effect related to that impairment of SEK 97 million.

EBIT came successful astatine SEK 66 cardinal for nan 4th versus minus SEK 12 cardinal successful nan aforesaid play erstwhile year. Acquisition-related amortization, which does not impact rate flow, was SEK 587 million. Adjusted EBIT, which excludes some items affecting comparability and amortization of acquisition-related intangible assets, was astatine SEK 919 cardinal versus SEK 393 cardinal during nan aforesaid play past year.

Moving connected to descent 14 which shows nan rate conversion. You will find nan span from adjusted EBITDA to rate travel earlier changes successful moving superior and explaining nan effect betwixt these items. As successful nan erstwhile quarter, we tin cipher taxation conversion aft liking payments, taxes, changes successful moving superior and investments successful CapEx.

In nan quarter, we person a continuous beardown rate conversion. We spot a rate travel procreation earlier changes successful moving superior of SEK 661 million. We spot full rate conversion of 82% successful nan quarter, which is aided by a affirmative alteration successful nett moving capital. Even if we excluded nan affirmative summation from nett moving capital, this rate conversion is still astatine 50%.

On average, complete nan past 12 months, we person rate travel conversion of 60%. Note that liking rates person gone up. Effective liking complaint successful nan 4th was 4.5% connected an annualized basis. We besides expect moving superior to beryllium much lumpy and we do deliberation we person unlocked a ample magnitude of nan moving superior that was locked erstwhile we started this year.

Please move to nan afloat rate travel connection connected page 15. We spot a beardown improvement successful conversion of adjusted EBITDA to free rate travel from operations. Cash travel from operating activities aft changes successful moving superior was SEK 933 cardinal for nan quarter. Net moving superior arsenic a percent of income continues to beryllium debased astatine astir 6%, which shows nan plus ray quality of our business.

In addition, during nan quarter, we amortized astir SEK 600 cardinal of loans and nan group had a closing rate equilibrium of SEK 2.1 billion. In addition, we person disposable slope overdraft accommodation of SEK 913 million.

Moving connected to page 16. There you spot nan nett indebtedness complete adjusted EBITDA which is affected by 3 components – adjusted EBITDA growth, rate procreation from operations and rate impacts which are contiguous connected debt, but we person a trailing effect connected earnings.

EBITDA maturation and beardown rate procreation caused nett indebtedness complete EBITDA to autumn successful Q4 versus Q3. We expect continued deleveraging from net maturation and rate generation. In nan quarter, we besides extended maturities for astir SEK 6.5 cardinal and $110 cardinal of existing in installments accommodation by a twelvemonth to 2026.

And then, moving connected to page 17. We reiterate our financial targets to turn adjusted EBITDA per stock by 20% per twelvemonth and to support nett indebtedness complete adjusted EBITDA beneath 3.5 complete time.

Adjusted EBITDA per stock grew 104% successful nan 4th fourth measured connected a rolling 12-month basis. And nett indebtedness to adjusted EBITDA is astatine 2.7x which is good wrong our financial goals. And we expect to proceed to deleverage.

For nan past 12 months, location is nary quality betwixt pro forma and reported adjusted EBITDA, but this KPI excludes nan effect of IFRS 16 related lease indebtedness connected some nett indebtedness and adjusted EBITDA.

With those comments, I would for illustration to manus complete backmost to Johan to summarize today's position and unfastened up for Q&A.

Johan Hedberg

Next descent please. So, again, I want to reiterate nan priorities we group successful Q2 2022 and which we person been delivering connected since then. We launched and executed a costs simplification programme wherever we realized half our targeted SEK 300 cardinal costs savings successful Q4. We reported a grounds adjusted EBITA number for nan company. We person improved our rate travel and managed to person immoderate 60% of adjusted EBITDA to rate travel successful 2022. Many parts of nan business execute arsenic expected, but we tin amended maturation rates successful our Messaging segment.

Looking holistically astatine our full business, we person a patient business, unchangeable separator and very diversified net pool. There is still imaginable to extract further costs and gross synergies from nan acquisitions closed successful 2021. We judge we are good positioned to beforehand our position successful nan marketplace.

Thomas Heath

Thank you for that, Johan. And pinch those concluding remarks, we'll manus nan connection complete backmost to nan usability for questions.

Question-and-Answer Session


[Operator Instructions]. The first mobility coming comes from Predrag Savinovic pinch Carnegie Investment Bank.

Predrag Savinovic

Could you logic a spot connected nan marketplace and nan competitory landscape, nan marketplace maturation and nan opportunities you spot now? I cognize this is simply a wide and strategical question. I get that. But what I'm getting astatine is that beautiful overmuch each of your competitors are doing rather drastic things, which is refocusing very overmuch connected margins and rate flows and, of course, immoderate of them commencement from losses. But they're reducing unit rather significantly, cutting marketing, R&D, raising prices, et cetera. And I'm conscionable wondering if this gives you immoderate opportunities? And if so, what kind? And also, connected your caller customer wins, did they person thing to do pinch this behavioral alteration from immoderate of your peers?

Johan Hedberg

I deliberation for nan for nan endeavor segment, we are seeing that nan competitory situation softens a lot. So, we consciousness that we person a very beardown position successful that marketplace. And I deliberation we look guardant to 2023 and immoderate of nan transverse waste opportunities we person pinch our endeavor customer base.

Predrag Savinovic

And nan 50 caller customers who signed successful Messaging, tin you put that successful narration to possibly your nett customer maturation successful nan erstwhile quarters? And could you besides quantify what this could mean successful position of gross profit erstwhile they're scaled fully?

Thomas Heath

I deliberation we proceed to spot a patient inflow of caller customers, arsenic we did successful Q3. Should carnivore successful mind that, successful nan Messaging segment, we're talking astir larger customers. Smaller customers will motion up for our SMB offering aliases usage our email products. These are ample customers which return a fewer months to motion aliases adjacent and past further months to ramp up nan volume. So, there's a small spot of a lagging effect successful position of customer acquisition and [indiscernible] landscape. It's a satisfactory performance. So, of course, nan wide maturation is impacted by galore factors. Expansion is an important 1 adjacent to customer acquisition [indiscernible].


The adjacent mobility comes from Stefan Gauffin pinch DNB.

Stefan Gauffin

A mates of questions. First of all, pinch a spot weaker demand, particularly successful Messaging and Voice, and successful operation pinch faster-than-expected consequence from nan costs program, why aren't you looking astatine expanding nan scope of nan costs program, fixed nan uncertain outlook?

Secondly, I saw that you are looking astatine raising prices successful first half. Given nan weaker volumes and weaker demand, is it nan correct medicine to raise prices successful that environment? Just your thoughts connected these 2 questions, please.

Johan Hedberg

If I commencement pinch your past question, we analyse what customers segments that we tin raise prices for. And we will not raise prices crossed nan line. It's for circumstantial customer segments wherever we judge it would beryllium successful.

And then, we person nan uncertain outlook and imaginable further costs simplification programs. We're, of course, pursuing cautiously really nan business develops. As of now, we do not person immoderate further plans for costs simplification programs.


The adjacent mobility comes from Daniel Thorsson pinch ABG.

Daniel Thorsson

Two questions. The first 1 is connected nan mid to agelong word EBITDA separator here. When you announced nan acquisition of Pathwire one-and-a-half twelvemonth ago, you showed a separator chart pinch a pro forma level of astir 16% for each nan mixed entities. Is that thing that is still reasonable for nan operation of businesses you person coming a mates of years retired aliases has thing changed successful nan past one-and-a-half twelvemonth that does not make that fig reasonable today, for example?

And then, secondly, now erstwhile you delever and make affirmative free rate travel and we spot competitors are struggling a spot more, what needs to hap to beryllium successful a amended style for M&A aliases for you to look astatine smaller targets successful nan market?

Roshan Saldanha

I will return nan first one. Roshan here. And past I'll manus complete to Johan to reply your 2nd question. On EBITDA margin, that descent that you're referring to was for humanities pro forma. I deliberation successful reference to Johan's erstwhile answer, we do spot nan imaginable [indiscernible] together these different organizations and we spot synergies some connected nan gross broadside and connected nan costs broadside complete clip to beryllium realized. I deliberation it's a spot excessively early to benignant of talk astir mid to agelong word targets, and this is not thing that we person forecasted before. But we spot nan imaginable to increase.

Johan Hedberg

For M&A, I deliberation we continuously scan nan marketplace and we are successful a amended position now than we were a mates of quarters back. I deliberation main targets correct now would beryllium targets that are financially accretive.


The adjacent mobility comes from Akhil Dattani pinch J.P. Morgan.

Akhil Dattani

Can I possibly inquire a mobility astir nan outlook. Obviously, you benignant of helped america understand nan measurement you're reasoning astir maturation versus profitability. But I conscionable wanted to excavation a small deeper into really you're reasoning astir nan style of trends complete nan coming quarters. In nan property release, you talk astir not expecting immoderate contiguous betterment successful maturation rates going forward. I conscionable wanted to explain what that means. Are we talking astir comparative to nan integrated maturation complaint successful Q4? If you tin possibly conscionable thief america understand what you're talking astir here, truthful we understand nan style of nan coming quarters.

And I conjecture a very akin mobility connected margins. We've had 2 bully EBITDA separator quarters successful nan past mates of quarters. Is that a benignant of reasonable tally complaint arsenic we deliberation astir nan going forward?

And then, nan 2nd 1 is conscionable connected management. In your property release, you talk astir rather a batch of guidance changes crossed nan divisions. I conscionable wonderment if you could talk america done really that impacts, if astatine all, nan integration processes. Does that create immoderate challenges?

Johan Hedberg

I'll commencement pinch nan first 1 and manus complete to Roshan. So, for what we talk about, nan cognition astir nan contiguous early wherever we're referring to nan afloat institution connected a pro forma parameter aliases pro forma integrated parameter, noting what we alluded to earlier that our comparables successful Q4 and besides going into Q1 are rather tough. Some comparables are easing further connected successful nan year, but astatine nan aforesaid time, we person a rather uncertain macroeconomic environment. So, location are tons of puts and takes arsenic we look further out, but we conscionable statement that we had a beardown 4th past Q4 and besides beardown 4th past Q1. So that's what we are referring to.

In position of nan sequential pattern, we did springiness pro forma figures for Q4 2020 – for past year. So you should person immoderate indications successful nan sequential guidance, Q4 to Q1, if you want to look astatine nan adjacent term.

Then, I deliberation Roshan.

Roshan Saldanha

I deliberation conscionable adding possibly a small spot of commentary connected nan individual segments. To that one, I deliberation what we've said present is that, successful Q4, [indiscernible] integrated maturation successful Messaging and Voice. We deliberation we spot a bully maturation shape successful nan Email conception [indiscernible] by improvements successful nan gross margin. And SMB continues connected nan aforesaid inclination that we person seen successful nan 3rd quarter. So there's a small spot of nan quality betwixt nan segments.

On EBITDA margins, I deliberation nan only point we tin opportunity is that if we person very bully and unchangeable – it's very overmuch limited connected gross and gross profit, I would say, successful nan short term, truthful if we person a unchangeable gross and gross profit, which we expect to have, past we don't spot immoderate logic why location should beryllium a worsening of EBITDA margins.

And pinch that, I'll manus complete to Johan for nan past question.

Johan Hedberg

I would opportunity we now person a guidance squad that tin successfully merge nan different assets we person acquired complete nan years, creating nan One Sinch acquisition for our customers, and besides successfully extract gross and costs synergies going forward.


The adjacent mobility comes from Laura Metayer pinch Morgan Stanley.

Laura Metayer

Two from me, please. One, could you springiness america an update connected nan basal versus precocious messaging operation successful nan Messaging segments? And could you remark connected really nan precocious messaging conception is doing?

The 2nd mobility connected EBITDA margin. So, your Q4 adjusted EBITDA separator was broadly unchangeable quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year? Could you springiness america an denotation of nan improvement erstwhile removing nan one-off recurring items and FX tailwinds, please?

Johan Hedberg

I'll commencement disconnected pinch nan first 1 and I'll return Roshan's thief for nan 2nd one. You mightiness request to repetition that question. But starting disconnected successful Messaging, location are aggregate ways to trim and portion nan marketplace for analytical purposes.

In position of what we person much actual information connected different types of connection channels, truthful SMS, RCS, Telegram, Viber, KakaoTalk and truthful forth. As you know, we person what we judge is simply a market-leading offering successful position of breadth and width of messaging channels.

In position of usage cases, it's a small spot much of a sliding scale. And it's difficult to use that type of segmenting, which we tin find successful reports from manufacture analysts. It's difficult to use that successful a benignant of system measurement to existent life information [indiscernible].

In position of looking astatine nan different connection channels, we proceed to spot fragmentation successful messaging and a diverged improvement crossed different geographies, where, successful particular, WhatsApp is continuing to execute good successful India and Brazil. We person occurrence pinch Telegram successful different parts of nan world. And it's a small spot of a mixed picture. We besides RCS successful definite countries starting to summation traction. So, it's a small spot of mixed picture.

These caller conversational channels, of course, thin to beryllium utilized for much precocious usage cases of a conversational nature.

I deliberation your 2nd mobility – possibly you tin repetition a small spot connected EBITDA and EBITDA margins,

Laura Metayer

So, your EBITDA separator successful Q4 was astir 13% of revenues. And successful Q4 past year, was astir nan same. Q3 this twelvemonth was besides astir 13%. But I understand you had immoderate FX tailwinds and besides immoderate tailwind from one-off recurring items successful Q4. Does that mean nan separator really decreased quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year successful Q4? If you tin thief america understand that, that would beryllium great.

Roshan Saldanha

I deliberation nan only commentary – nan only quality successful nan 4th fourth is nan one-off comments that we person made connected SEK 60 cardinal successful operating costs, which helped america successful nan 4th quarter. But too that, each different effects are accordant complete nan quarters. We person an FX tailwind connected gross profit that we highlight. We have, of course, an FX headwind connected nan operating costs which nets retired nan portion of nan gross profit tailwind.


The adjacent mobility comes from Andreas Joelsson from Danske Bank.

Andreas Joelsson

Two questions for me. First of all, looking into 2023 and nan maturation uncertainty that you spot and you mentioned that you are investigating aliases looking into early looking investments. In that perspective, really do you look astatine nan wide target connected EBITDA per share, base that successful mind of 20% growth?

Secondly, possibly a travel up to nan erstwhile mobility connected nan Messaging volume, you mentioned that you person seen wholesale coming down, 1 ample customer reducing volumes. Do you spot immoderate different akin risks successful nan portfolio you person of messaging volumes? Or really should we spot that going guardant erstwhile we look into 2023?

Roshan Saldanha

Roshan here. I tin commencement pinch nan first 1 and past I'll fto Johan [indiscernible] second. On nan adjusted EBITDA per share, that's a target that we reiterated this 4th that we want to turn it to beryllium 20%. Of course, that is delicate to gross profit development. And we request to proceed to watch it closely. But we person immoderate costs savings, of course, that that should thief america during nan coming quarters. And this is thing we will proceed to watch intimately to beryllium capable to present to our target.


Johan Hedberg

I deliberation nan consequence successful nan Messaging conception and what we talk astir successful nan study is that nan trading usage cases, I deliberation Q4 is benignant of trading dense pinch nan [indiscernible] and truthful forth. We are little truthful successful nan coming quarters. And that is nan usage lawsuit that we talk astir successful nan report.

And successful position of customer concentration, customer attraction for nan full group has travel down [indiscernible] and it's little of a interest than it was successful erstwhile years.


[Operator Instructions]. The adjacent mobility comes from Klas Danielsson pinch Nordea.

Klas Danielsson

So, conscionable a speedy follow-up connected nan pricing broadside and what you talk astir pinch customers becoming much value sensitive. Could you possibly elaborate connected what types effect that is materializing as? Are you seeing benignant of immoderate customers staying pinch Sinch and moving immoderate volumes to different competitors aliases what's that materializing as?

Secondly, also, I wanted to travel up connected nan usability behaviour connected nan pricing side. Basically, if you could elaborate a spot connected what you're seeing successful position of trends there.

Thomas Heath

Thomas here. I'll explain nan first mobility and past manus complete to Johan for nan 2nd part. So what we're alluding to successful position of value attraction is really related to immoderate customers, immoderate larger customers successful our Messaging conception and our Voice segment. It's wherever we person customers for illustration package vendors, who either resell aliases embed our offering into different package product. So we're not reasoning astir banks aliases airlines aliases hotel. More exertion oriented companies and work providers. Like ourselves and galore different companies successful this environment, these companies are scrutinizing their costs and looking astatine each statement point successful their P&L, and that conscionable intends that value gains much value successful nan ongoing discussions pinch vendors. We're very comfortable that we are maintaining aliases expanding our stock of wallet pinch these customers. We person a privileged position based connected a agelong way grounds of transportation and a nickname for nan precocious value successful your offering, which maps good to this type of customer segment.

So, don't want to exaggerate really overmuch nan customer guidelines is related to, but moreover a fewer ample customers tin person an impact. And also, we don't really spot this successful nan SMB and Email segment, which are much agelong word oriented.

Then I deliberation location was a mobility connected bearer pricing, Johan.

Johan Hedberg

Can you please repetition that question? Would beryllium great.

Klas Danielsson

No, it's conscionable a very wide mobility connected what you're seeing operators doing connected pricing currently, and basically, what your visibility is besides connected that broadside into 2023, if you tin possibly elaborate connected what trends you're seeing there?

Johan Hedberg

No, I deliberation we had immoderate of that successful erstwhile years, but going into 2023, we don't spot that that will impact our numbers successful immoderate [indiscernible] way.


The adjacent mobility comes from Mohammed Moawalla pinch Goldman Sachs.

Mohammed Moawalla

I had 2 questions, please. One, conscionable arsenic we look astatine nan apical statement evolution, you evidently talked astir immoderate of nan challenges. When do you expect nan business to perchance benignant of travel backmost to benignant of marketplace maturation complaint connected a benignant of integrated gross profit basis? And do you consciousness nan request to perchance reinvest immoderate of nan savings from nan costs cutting programme to Stimulate that acceleration?

Secondly, obviously, connected nan moving superior movements, this quarter, it was driven by expanding accounts payables. If we look astatine things for illustration nan receivables and DSOs, that travel down to 60 days successful nan 4th quarter. Are we astatine benignant of approaching a level connected nan DSOs. And really overmuch much moving superior betterment tin you drive, peculiarly connected nan benignant of DSO side?

Johan Hedberg

On nan investment, we are investing successful initiatives, particularly astir merchandise integration, making each our products disposable connected integer channels, and besides to person each our income teams waste nan complete merchandise portfolio. So this is simply a transverse waste effect. And we are – probably, successful 2023, for nan integer channels, we will not spot nan effect. But for transverse waste pinch section income teams, we should beryllium capable to spot effect successful H2 2023, though from a mini level.

Roshan Saldanha

I deliberation connected nan 2nd mobility – Roshan present – I deliberation if you look astatine nan moving superior effect that we've had, we're presently operating astatine astir 6% of revenues. This reflects nan plus ray quality of our business. In this quarter, we person some DSO and DPO contributing to activity superior release. So, I deliberation DSO accrued from 59 to 60 connected a full-year basis, but moreover compared to past quarter. DPO increases arsenic well, but wrong scope this quarter.

Now, erstwhile you look forward, I deliberation connected a structural basis, we do spot nan anticipation to amended moving superior complete a longer term. But I deliberation nan ample portion of nan short word unlocking is down america now. So we spot now possibly reverting to a much normal scope of moving superior movements that tin beryllium realized.


The adjacent mobility comes from James Pavey pinch Bank of America.

James Pavey

A speedy mobility connected visibility connected volumes complete nan remainder of 2023. You called retired earlier that you've sewage a large effect successful Q4 from marketing. Are you worried astir immoderate spillover effects into different segments for illustration Email wherever I deliberation from your woody position you had astir 40% connected trading and 60% transactional email.

Johan Hedberg

I deliberation that nan measurement patterns, of course, alteration a small spot by product, surface science and customer segments. Generally speaking, nan trajectory for email is rather optimistic. Email is simply a very costs businesslike transmission for marketing, pinch very precocious ROI for enterprises who usage it. It's rather different worth proposition than using, for example, messaging channels, which are much costly and much of a premium nature, which tin besides person a precocious ROI erstwhile deployed correctly. So, it's a small spot different betwixt nan different channels.

We've highlighted a fewer headwinds successful position of volumes. Brazil being 1 of them, which has been tough. Whereas India, for example, has recovered and doing very well. Volume maturation successful Q4 is besides affected by our conscious prime to prioritize profitable maturation and profitable business successful general, which intends we opted to move distant from definite themes, essentially, wherever nan separator floor plan has not been charismatic enough.


The adjacent mobility comes from Stefan Gauffin pinch DNB.

Stefan Gauffin

Just a speedy follow-up connected nan Pathwire. When was nan migration to nan caller unreality infrastructure completed? Was it opening aliases extremity of nan quarter, conscionable to understand nan separator development?

Johan Hedberg

This was a phased migration, I would say, complete nan 2nd half of nan year. So, it was completed gradually done nan 2nd half.


Next mobility comes from Andreas Joelsson pinch Danske Bank.

Andreas Joelsson

Just a follow-up connected nan transverse waste imaginable and nan execution, if you could supply america pinch immoderate information connected wherever you are and what you spot up and wherever nan challenges you’re your learnings truthful far, what is nan main hurdles for nan ones that are utilizing 1 merchandise to spell to 2 products?

Johan Hedberg

A small spot different depending connected nan income motion. If you deliberation astir an existing messaging customer wherever we person an accounts head and a section income model, past it's fundamentally akin to onboarding a caller customer, pinch nan quality that we will person passed a batch of hurdles and requirements, information clearances, and truthful forth, and we'll person a ft successful nan doorway arsenic an existing vendor connected an adjacent product, right? But different than that, nan onboarding process successful a section income scenario, akin to a caller customer.

On nan merchandise led maturation side, truthful deliberation astir nan 100,000 positive developers who usage our email product, they're not interacting pinch our income teams directly. The income process is straight done nan product. That intends that nan transverse and upsell needs to expose and build retired merchandise features and functionality, truthful that when, for example, you log into Mailgun, you will beryllium exposed successful 1 measurement aliases nan different to our messaging offering, our sound offering, our OTP offering [indiscernible].

So, small spot different, whether it's income led, transverse waste aliases merchandise led maturation that we're looking astatine [indiscernible] attraction areas for us.


We are now coming to nan extremity of our session. I would for illustration to move nan convention backmost complete to nan institution for immoderate closing remarks.

Thomas Heath

Thanks very much, operator, and convey you, everyone, who dialed successful coming for nan continued liking successful our business. And I'll time off complete to Johan for immoderate concluding remarks.

Johan Hedberg

So finishing disconnected pinch conscionable summarizing what we already said connected our 3 priorities. We're very pleased pinch nan execution connected nan costs power and connected EBITDA and rate flow. We tin amended connected nan maturation rates, particularly successful nan Messaging segment.

Roshan Saldanha

Thank you, everybody.

Johan Hedberg

Thank you very much.

Thomas Heath

Thank you.


The convention has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You whitethorn now disconnect.

Editor: Naga

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