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Dream Unlimited Corp. (DRUNF) Q4 2022 Earnings Call Transcript

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Dream Unlimited Corp. (OTCPK:DRUNF) Q4 2022 Earnings Conference Call February 21, 2023 5:00 AM ET

Company Participants

Michael Cooper - CRO

Deb Starkman - CFO

Conference Call Participants

Mark Rothschild - Canaccord

Sam Damiani - TD Securities

Operator

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to nan Dream Unlimited Corp Fourth Quarter Conference Call for Tuesday, February 21, 2023. During this call, guidance of Dream Unlimited Corp whitethorn make statements containing forward-looking accusation wrong nan meaning of applicable securities legislation.

Forward-looking accusation is based connected a number of assumptions and is taxable to a number of risks and uncertainties, galore of which are beyond Dream Unlimited Corp's power that could origin existent results to disagree materially from those that are disclosed successful aliases implied by specified forward-looking information.

Additional accusation astir these assumptions and risks and uncertainties is contained successful Dream Unlimited Corp's filings pinch securities regulators, including its latest Annual Information Form and MD&A. These filings are besides disposable connected Dream Unlimited Corp's website astatine www.dream.ca. Later successful nan presentation, we will person a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions]

Your big for coming will beryllium Mr. Michael Cooper, CRO of Dream Unlimited Corp. Mr. Cooper, please spell ahead.

Michael Cooper

Thank you very overmuch and invited everybody to Dream's year-end convention call.

We released our results earlier. Today I'm pinch our CFO, Deb and she will coming nan financials. After that, I will talk immoderate of nan particulars astir nan company. But I'd conscionable commencement pinch much of a macro constituent of view.

Last nighttime aliases this greeting I publication 1 of nan reports connected Dream Industrial, it said that European rents are up 20% and headdress rates person expanded 75% -- 75 ground points. And I thought for illustration 20% summation successful rent is huge. It's benignant of singular that headdress rates would beryllium up truthful much, truthful that benignant of defines everything we're seeing.

This greeting Canadian CPI came out, it was -- it looked really awesome that halfway ostentation is down astatine a reasonable number we're making progress. And past you spot a jobs number that's disconnected nan charts. You're proceeding group talking about really nan marketplace is going to crash, different group saying we're past nan bottom, liking rates are going to travel down. Others for illustration -- it's conscionable specified a difficult situation to negociate through.

At Dream, we study quarterly -- we really do person a longer-term outlook. I mean currently, nan equity successful nan institution is rather a reasonable number down and I deliberation it's moreover higher than our trading value, but nan astonishing point astir our equity is almost 100% retained net and we've made that money starting connected a very mini equity guidelines and we support increasing it and a batch of nan activity we're doing is semipermanent successful nature.

But I deliberation if you look astatine nan advancement we've made successful nan past year, nan past 3 years, past 5 years, institution has changed a batch and has gotten higher quality. I deliberation we're showing a batch better, best-in-class management. We sewage innovative products each complete nan spot and I deliberation nan institution is successful really awesome shape. So while nan macro situation is fluctuating, I do deliberation that we are building a awesome level for nan agelong term.

I deliberation that nan undercurrent is, we're going done 25 years of declining liking rates, which person been a boost, and now liking rates are backmost to wherever they were successful 2006, which doesn't look shocking successful its face. But we are looking astatine different benignant of environments, 1 that mightiness beryllium different from nan past 25 years. And what I would opportunity is, from a twelvemonth agone we're incredibly -- nan full system is adjusting measurement amended than I would person ever thought and rather honestly measurement amended than thing I've ever read.

So I deliberation we've gotten done a batch of it. I'm really rather bullish going guardant taxable to nan geopolitical events. But I do deliberation it's been an astonishing betterment successful nan past 12 months to accommodate to a very different environment. And I deliberation Dream group up very good to execute successful this environment.

But astatine this point, Deb, do you want to supply immoderate accusation connected nan financials?

Deb Starkman

Thank you, Michael, and bully afternoon.

For nan 3 and 12 months ended December 31, net earlier income taxes aft adjusting for adjacent worth gains and losses connected income spot units -- Impact Trust units held by different portion holders was a nonaccomplishment of $56 cardinal and net of $117 cardinal respectively, compared to net of $99 cardinal and $151 cardinal successful 2021.

The alteration from 2021 is chiefly owed to little adjacent worth adjustments connected our finance properties including those held successful equity-accounted investments and adjacent worth nonaccomplishment connected Impact Trust's finance successful Virgin Hotels successful Las Vegas.

This was partially offset by condominium occupancies astatine Canary Commons during nan first half of nan twelvemonth and a summation connected onshore colony recognized successful nan 3rd quarter. We maintained beardown liquidity and managed consequence pinch $286 cardinal successful liquidity and a blimpish leverage ratio of 41%.

I'll now spell done a little overview of nan results by operating segment. In nan 4th quarter, our recurring income conception generated gross and nett operating income of $43 cardinal and $14 cardinal respectively, up from $36 cardinal and $10 cardinal successful 2021. For nan twelvemonth ended December 31, 2022, our recurring income conception generated gross and nett operating income of $168 cardinal and $64 cardinal respectively, an summation of $51 cardinal and $23 cardinal complete 2021.

The summation was chiefly driven by beardown results astatine A-Basin, net from our increasing multifamily portfolio and improved capacity astatine nan Distillery District successful our boutique hotels successful Toronto. Included successful gross for nan twelvemonth ended December 31, it's $48 cardinal relating to nan plus guidance and improvement contracts pinch Dream Industrial REIT, Dream Office REIT, Dream Residential REIT and our partnerships up from $43 cardinal successful 2021. We expect these revenues to turn complete clip arsenic we perfectly prosecute caller plus guidance opportunities.

In nan 4th quarter, our improvement conception generated gross and a nett separator of $125 cardinal and $33 cardinal respectively, compared to $114 cardinal and $27 cardinal successful nan anterior year. Fourth 4th results were mostly driven by our income successful Western Canada. Revenue and nett separator for nan improvement conception was down from nan anterior twelvemonth arsenic 2021 results included occupancies astatine Phase 1 astatine Riverside Square. In 2022, we achieved 858 tons income and 39 acre sales, compared to 959 tons and 10 acres successful 2021.

To date, we person secured commitments for 420 tons and 23 acres that we expect to lend to our net successful 2023. We clasp liking successful Dream Office REIT, Dream Impact Trust and Dream Residential REIT astatine 38%, 32% and 12%, inclusive of nan Senior Management's Holdings. During nan year, we received $28 cardinal successful rate distributions from nan Trust.

As of February 17, nan marketplace worth of our liking successful nan spot is $420 cardinal aliases astir 34% of Dream's existent marketplace cap. We stay committed to maintaining a blimpish indebtedness position and whitethorn usage excess liquidity to money imaginable caller finance opportunities arsenic they originate arsenic good arsenic acquisition an further portion of Dream Office REIT and Dream Impact Trust.

And now I'll move it backmost complete to Michael.

Michael Cooper

Thank you, Deb.

Just by segment, for years, we've been saying, we want to summation our recurring income. We've taken a batch of steps successful that direction. We person been completing rather a spot of income properties that person contributed significantly, particularly getting into nan flat sector. Over nan adjacent number of years, adjacent 3 aliases 4 years, we person I deliberation a important number of properties being completed and we're besides starting a batch more.

So that's going to turn rather a spot and each of our recurring income assets are performing very well. A-Basin had a bully twelvemonth past year, it's nan champion we ever had. I deliberation this twelvemonth will beryllium moreover higher and I deliberation it's going very good location and admit nan activity that nan squad is doing. We accrued our position successful nan Distillery District from 50% to 62.5%.

I deliberation that is simply a very valuable Dream pinch its partners are completing West Don Lands, nan Indigenous Hub. We've sewage Victory Silos and a Quayside, but summation -- different developers are besides finishing a batch of properties location and we deliberation that nan organization is going to summation a lot, postulation is going to summation a batch and I deliberation nan Distillery will beryllium worthy much successful nan early than it is now. So we're beautiful excited astir that.

Western Canada is holding successful beautiful good, which is great. I mean I deliberation nan absorbing Western Canada is arsenic lipid fell aft 2014, we weren't doing very well. It's picked up rather a spot successful nan past mates of years. The first 4th of 2022 was unbelievably beardown and passim nan twelvemonth it benignant of petered off, but Alberta and Saskatchewan person a highest discretionary income, nan highest income per capita and nan businesses are going very good there.

So I deliberation that will beryllium expanding unit connected people's pent-up request to commencement buying houses again and this twelvemonth will beryllium a small slow, but we deliberation it'll beryllium beautiful good. It's looking very bully for partial sales, some to institutions for illustration for schools arsenic good arsenic for commercialized use. So I deliberation we'll prime up location what we mightiness suffer immoderate of successful lots. So I deliberation it's going to move retired beautiful bully and I deliberation early years look very strong.

So I deliberation Western Canada is going to salary disconnected good for us. Impact investing has been a large business for us. I deliberation we've sewage complete $3 cardinal of superior passim nan organization, invested successful Impact and nan type of investing we're doing, I genuinely judge that this is really each existent property companies will beryllium developing. And we're very pleased pinch nan acceptance we've sewage from governments, nan advancement we've made connected our developments erstwhile a Quayside astatine LeBreton flats are immense for us.

And I besides deliberation nan Dream Community Foundation is making a quality and we're seeing that successful nan vicinity of Western comments. We're going to grow it much complete nan adjacent year, but arsenic acold arsenic effect goes dealing pinch having affordable lodging units is great, reducing c emissions is great. But nan instauration itself is providing a overmuch much societal information nett for nan group successful nan community.

And mostly pinch nan Community Foundation, a 3rd to half of nan recipients are residents and nan different half would beryllium group successful neighborhood, we're trying to elevate nan full community, not conscionable our properties. And we've had astonishing results conscionable by really group consciousness astir their organization and arsenic we grow complete nan adjacent mates of years, I deliberation it'll go overmuch much obvious, nan magnitude of benefits that travel from it and nan benefits that Dream will reap arsenic a consequence of nan communities that were progressive successful doing better.

We put up an finance -- investor position earlier this afternoon. I want to spell done a mates of things successful it connected Page 3, you don't person to look astatine it, I'll show you what I'm referring to. We now person $23 cardinal of assets nether management, that's up 56% from nan opening of past year.

As I mentioned, we person $3.2 cardinal of effect assets, considering that we weren't thought of arsenic a residential and income residential business is beautiful astonishing that we person astir 34,000 units that we ain aliases person onshore for. We've sewage a 19% annualized return for our shareholders complete nan past 4 years and nan number that benignant of jumps retired were up to 84 cardinal quadrate feet of commercialized abstraction arsenic we are now. Since nan motorboat successful June astatine Forma, we've sold complete $800 cardinal of condos and that's really magnificent number. It's an illustration of -- I deliberation that's nan biggest motorboat ever.

The value per portion is very high. I deliberation it's nan highest value per quadrate ft for immoderate building pinch much than a mates 100 units. It's gone exceptionally good successful a very difficult environment. And I deliberation that it's a testament to nan invention of our squad and our partner's teams to beryllium capable to create thing that's received this good successful a reliable environment. We besides closed nan Summit transaction pinch GIC past Friday. I'll astir apt mention to that a small spot much successful a minute.

On Page 5, we benignant of break retired nan institution and there's immoderate really absorbing numbers. In nan first section, which is conscionable third-party plus management, we've sewage astir $11 cardinal of assets successful our nationalist vehicles. We now person $8 cardinal successful our backstage finance vehicles and that's a beautiful melodramatic increase. We had very small 3 aliases 4 years ago.

We tin spot maturation successful some and we deliberation that being capable to entree backstage and nationalist marketplace will make america much capable to prosecute nan maturation and nan style of business that would for illustration to do without taking connected leverage consequence wrong Dream Unlimited. So I deliberation that's very breathtaking advancement for us.

On nan recurring income, erstwhile you see our REIT units, which are an indirect ownership of existent estate, we had $88 cardinal of recurring rate flow. I deliberation that's a typical number. I deliberation we're going to beryllium complete $100 cardinal beautiful soon, and that will really put america successful bully stead to beryllium capable to money nan business without thing from improvement and that's nan guidance we've been moving connected since astir 2016 and 2017. And to get to $100 cardinal will beryllium a large accomplishment. Again, our improvement business continues to beryllium significant, though nan full business is increasing and I deliberation it's not needfully expanding arsenic quickly arsenic nan wide business.

On Page 6, I do want to mention to nan maturation of our plus guidance business. As I said, we're astatine $23 cardinal of assets nether management, it's a beautiful large summation from nan opening of 2022. But I want to constituent retired that successful 2016, we internalized Dream Office REIT, and successful 2019, we saw Dream Global that's nan balanced of different $10 cardinal of assets.

So successful 2015, we were astatine astir $15 cardinal of assets nether management, now we person beautiful bully maturation to $23 billion, but if you see what we sold, it would beryllium $33 billion. So location really has been maturation and now I deliberation we've sewage -- we've been building retired a full level to support nan maturation successful our plus guidance business. So I deliberation it's beautiful bully advancement astatine each -- successful each assemblage of our business.

Last remark connected assets nether guidance is that nan operation of assets person really changed complete nan past 2 years. We had $10 cardinal of assets nether guidance astatine nan extremity of 2020, now we person $23.4 billion, but of that astir 70% -- 72% are now Office -- I'm sorry, nan Industrial and Residential, up from 31% astatine nan extremity of 2019. So that I deliberation has been a beautiful bully displacement to make judge that we ain assets that are precocious value predictable and safer.

As we move forward, I deliberation you're going to spot america focusing connected expanding our recurring income from nan assets that we developed. We whitethorn beryllium buying immoderate much apartments pinch Impact Trust and Impact Fund. We're going to beryllium increasing our plus guidance business. And I'd opportunity that nan point that has really stuck retired is erstwhile I talk astir Forma that was a beautiful innovative task that has been very successful.

And if we look astatine nan activity we did pinch CMHC to do a aviator task that led up to MLI Select Financing, that was beautiful innovative arsenic well. And MLI Select has go nan number 1 level for CMHC to beryllium lending 2 apartments has been a awesome portion of creating that. We besides worked pinch Canadian Infrastructure Bank to create a $136 cardinal indebtedness to decarbonize our buildings and now we're making a batch of progress, really moving connected nan decarbonization, but that was a beautiful innovative loan.

The transaction pinch a sovereign wealthiness money to bargain Summit was besides beautiful innovative. And erstwhile you look astatine it and also, I'd opportunity this, speech from decarbonizing nan assets successful Dream Office, nan usage that we're making of nan buildings has been really rather innovative arsenic good and we're excited to spot nan Bay Street postulation opened later this year.

And past of people pinch Impact that is -- you cognize it's a comparatively caller plus people and I deliberation that, well, since we launched it complete 2 years ago, wherever we've been very successful dealing pinch different levels of governments successful bid to triumph projects, we've sewage astir 20 investors -- 20 organization investors that are investing pinch america astatine Impact and erstwhile you put each this together, I deliberation what's really happening is Dream is rising to nan apical individual sectors and doing innovative activity and getting bully returns for it.

So we're very excited to support building from wherever we are. And arsenic nan macro situation changes, we'll either get a small spot of a push aliases possibly a spot of a assemblage check, but I deliberation complete nan longer term, it will move retired to beryllium not arsenic important arsenic nan existent activity that we're doing to make our institution better.

I'd beryllium happy to reply immoderate questions. Deb would beryllium happy to reply immoderate questions. So if location are any, usability tin you woody pinch them?

Question-and-Answer Session

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We person our first mobility from Mark Rothschild pinch Canaccord. Please spell ahead. Please standby, while I unfastened up your line. And your statement is now open.

Mark Rothschild

Thanks and bully day everyone. Maybe conscionable looking wide astatine nan institution pinch liquidity approaching $300 million, is that much than you consciousness you request astatine this point, is that nan correct number? And really does that fresh into your wide goals successful nan adjacent word arsenic acold arsenic superior uses, whether it's starting caller condo projects, investing successful Dream Office units aliases buying backmost banal successful Dream Unlimited?

Michael Cooper

Mark, I emotion that question. I can't show you really galore hours I thought pondering connected beaches, connected skis hills. And I deliberation nan answer, I get to is, it's not enough. As we person gone done nan upheaval complete nan past year, I deliberation we're seeing different kinds of investors and immoderate investors are emotion rather stressed already. A method of building condos. It enactment a small spot longer, liking rates are a small spot higher and they are already committed to nan adjacent 1 and they're struggling a small bit.

We look astatine nan pension funds, they mostly person rather a spot of liquidity and erstwhile you look astatine benignant of either able families aliases semipermanent existent property businesses, a batch of them either person very small indebtedness aliases monolithic amounts of liquidity. So nan past twelvemonth it's been really rather uncertain really things are going to move out. And I would opportunity that we consciousness that nan institution should person much liquidity successful nan future. What we person now is great, it's awesome compared to what we've had immoderate clip earlier this.

But I deliberation we're benignant of reasoning astir possibly a bully number would beryllium $500 million, which we dream to get to complete nan adjacent for illustration 4 aliases 5 years, but that's conscionable directional. But I would opportunity that to beryllium capable to prosecute our plans without interruption arsenic macro things change, we want to -- we want to person much and much liquidity.

Having said that, we do person a batch of liquidity let's opportunity from third-party investors, truthful we sewage a batch of liquidity for our Impact Fund. We've sewage liquidity for Industrial. So immoderate of nan liquidity is astatine nan apical company, but clearly, we're trying to person much recurring income, a safer business, much liquidity, and much activity down astatine nan managed entities whether they're nationalist aliases private. So I would opportunity we will thin to summation nan liquidity and we'll evidently beryllium opportunistic to put successful properties aliases bargain stock, but it'll astir apt beryllium a batch little our superior that has been for nan past 20 years.

Mark Rothschild

Okay, that's interesting. Thanks. And possibly conscionable pursuing up connected that, to what grade is that -- whitethorn beryllium evolving position and position connected liquidity because of nan existent economical situation aliases much conscionable really do you want to position nan institution whitethorn beryllium done cycles?

Michael Cooper

Yes, that's a awesome mobility too. I mean I deliberation that we had tailwinds from nan opening of nan company's history. And though nan recession of 2000 looked a spot scary, nan world financial situation looks scary, erstwhile nan U.S. was perchance going to default successful 2011 that was a spot scary, COVID was really scary. I deliberation nan constituent is, if we're going to person a position to tally nan institution complete nan agelong term, we request to make judge that we person nan expertise to get done it.

And I'd opportunity that nan conditions successful nan past twelvemonth was an illustration of what could happen. Actually rather well, I mean we haven't had immoderate issues rolling complete indebtedness aliases getting caller debt, but that could hap and I'd opportunity it's a operation of both. We person capable assets, capable reputation, capable activity to beryllium capable to get a batch of worldly done, and not needfully needing arsenic overmuch of our ain money. And I deliberation we should conscionable beryllium safer to benignant of beryllium successful a position to ever beryllium capable to execute our dreams.

Mark Rothschild

Okay, great. Maybe conscionable 1 much speedy mobility connected nan batch sales. It sounds for illustration nan number now is astir 420 that you person nether statement you're looking to. Would that beryllium a target for nan twelvemonth and if you could besides possibly conscionable remark connected really nan request has evolved complete nan past six months pinch higher liking rate?

Michael Cooper

Yes, it's different bully question. So what's happened is, for nan past mates of years our builders person been building everything they can. And location -- nan bottleneck was being capable to nutrient properties, not having buyers. So successful nan first 4th was beautiful utmost pinch past twelvemonth and it eased off, we're seeing now much group visiting for illustration group are getting connected pinch their life and nan liking rates are benignant of successful nan aforesaid places arsenic they were now for for illustration 90 days aliases whatever.

So we're starting to spot much group looking to bargain houses and starting to bargain more. So we're seeing a pickup. It's fortunate that Alberta and Saskatchewan person specified bully economics going on, but we deliberation it's going to get a spot better. So nan 420 is pre-sold, that doesn't see houses that we're doing aliases immoderate builders travel to america and inquire for much lots. So we expect it to beryllium higher, but that's going to dangle connected what nan advancement is.

Mark Rothschild

Okay, great. Thank you truthful much.

Operator

Thank you. We person our adjacent mobility from Sam Damiani pinch TD Securities. Please standby and I will unfastened up your statement for you. Your statement is now open.

Sam Damiani

Thanks. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Michael. Good afternoon, Deb. Maybe first question, conscionable a small spot of a travel connected from 1 of Mark's, conscionable connected nan leverage ratio that you guys quoted successful nan MD&A, it's astir 40%. Is that a attraction metric for you and really do you consciousness astir that metric successful position of wherever you'd for illustration to spot leverage successful nan business successful nan adjacent fewer years?

Michael Cooper

I look much astatine what nan indebtedness is to our adjacent worth arsenic a much important metric and onto liquidity, that's 1 of nan focuses, what's your expertise would withstand a much difficult financing time. I deliberation if you look astatine connected a proportionate basis, erstwhile you look astatine what we ain and what nan indebtedness is against that, we're conscionable nether $1.2 billion.

We person complete $300 cardinal of liquidity, I deliberation that's beautiful good. A large portion of our indebtedness is for illustration RCFI Financing and mortgages. So, I consciousness that we're safe successful a batch of different times, but I don't really look astatine what indebtedness is to plus guidance and $43 cardinal successful onshore astatine cost.

Sam Damiani

Got it. And possibly conscionable complete -- switching complete to nan assets nether management, evidently awesome trajectory complete nan past mates of years, culminating pinch nan Summit transaction. I'm wondering if you could springiness america a consciousness arsenic to really progressive nan programmatic constituent of that narration is going to beryllium going guardant successful nan Canadian Industrial spot market?

Michael Cooper

Well, that's interesting. I deliberation we're going to beryllium rather progressive successful nan Canadian Industrial marketplace and I deliberation we've sewage nan firepower to do it. I deliberation that nan JV will turn rather a spot and it won't beryllium that difficult for Dream Industrial to support up. So I deliberation we'll beryllium a coagulated purchaser of fantabulous properties. So I deliberation it will beryllium meaningful. And I conjecture pinch Industrial, I deliberation we person 43 cardinal quadrate feet successful Canada now that we either -- that we ain and negociate and 11 cardinal quadrate feet astatine our improvement pipeline. I deliberation that's going to turn significantly.

And what I'm really excited astir is really we're going to create our expertise to make nan astir retired of having a ample platform. Was that moving tenants to caller developments and releasing nan abstraction earlier moving tenants astir aliases different ways to make further funds. We should beryllium capable to beryllium overmuch much profitable because we person standard than we had successful nan past. So that would beryllium focused connected that a lot, but we expect to person decent maturation successful nan Industrial platform.

Sam Damiani

Okay, great. And conscionable past 1 for me, I've asked you this before, but conscionable nan build retired of nan residential pipeline is simply a meaningful portion of nan expected maturation successful recurring income complete nan adjacent fewer years. What's your consciousness arsenic to really nan stars are aligning for economical residential rental improvement kick-starting a caller task today?

Michael Cooper

Yes, that's a really absorbing 1 and I deliberation we're proceeding arsenic planned for nan astir part. In Zibi, nan numbers are moving well. In Western Canada, it's really rather shocking that we're capable to get decent rents, built to a bully output connected costs and get 10-year indebtedness astatine a complaint that's very profitable. So I deliberation we've sewage 220 units, finishing this year. But soon arsenic we person immoderate level comparable, we'll commencement nan adjacent one. At Zibi, we're getting fresh to commencement nan 2nd residential building astatine nan extremity of this year, moreover though nan first isn't finished. So there's a batch that is working. We've very seldom bought onshore astatine today's marketplace value.

So we person a batch of -- we person a debased costs base. I would opportunity if we paid $225 a ft for building -- abstraction downtown, onshore downtown, it mightiness beryllium harder, but we're successful beautiful bully shape. We've announced this successful different ways. I deliberation it's successful nan property merchandise that Quayside is closing soon and Quayside, it's going to -- it's already consumed tremendous resources here. We've had very bully meetings pinch nan City Waterfront Toronto connected different levels. I deliberation that task is going to advancement very quickly, moreover much quickly than we had assumed originally.

So, I would opportunity that we are looking astatine risks and -- so, I opportunity that Quayside was designed successful a measurement that it tin spell guardant and it will make decent returns and will beryllium capable to meet nan commitments we made to nan government. So that's very exciting. But astatine this point, I deliberation we've sewage almost our maximum magnitude that we tin build. So nan rumor really now isn't going to beryllium like, are we going to a task that we were reasoning of doing. I deliberation for nan astir part, it will be, let's make judge we do a awesome occupation successful what we have.

So we ain a batch of lands and immoderate of that is being deferred until we get different specified worldly done, but nan marketplace is challenged. I talked astir Forma and fto maine beryllium clear Forma is 1 of 2 projects successful nan past twelvemonth that person been successfully launched. Others person been launched, but not to get to pre-sales very quickly.

So nan condo marketplace is struggling and hopefully we'll beryllium capable to get decent liking rates to beryllium capable to do much housing, but a batch of nan lodging we're doing -- nan rental is pinch CMHC, RCFI debt, truthful we person certainty astir nan magnitude of indebtedness and nan semipermanent costs and that seems to activity okay, correct now.

Sam Damiani

Okay, great. Thank you.

Michael Cooper

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. I'm opinionated by for further questions. [Operator Instructions] I spot nary further questions successful queue. I will now move nan telephone backmost complete to Mr. Cooper for closing remarks.

Michael Cooper

Thanks, Sam. Thanks, Mark. If anybody other has questions, please don't hesitate to interaction Deb aliases myself. Thank you for listening successful coming and I dream that you proceed to person liking successful our business. Be well.

Operator

And convey you. This concludes today's conference. We convey you for participating. You whitethorn now disconnect.

Editor: Naga



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